Alin Munteanu, Cartel Alfa: Mining will not be completely closed, but neither will it be reopened. I don’t trust sovereignists

Vladimir Mitev, Malgorzata Kulbaczewska-Figat

Alin Munteanu is the president of Cartel Alfa Gorj at Complex Energetic Oltenia. He spoke to Cross-border Talks about the trade union perspective towards just transition in Romania. The interview was conducted on February 26, 2025.

Malgorzata Kulbaczewska-Figat: First of all, the previous year was an election year for Romania, with a lot of fights around the presidential elections, but there were also local elections. To what extent was the topic of just transition topical throughout this electoral period? Were the political forces interested in discussing and doing something in the interests of the people working in the energy and mining sector?

During elections, politicians come to workers with promises, etc. But during this time there has been a mood in the sense that voters have not been with the traditional parties, but have been with the sovereignist parties.

So this time, the miners didn’t hear anything new from anyone, if we are talking about politicians?

They heard something new from the candidate who also got the most votes. He promised them that when he comes out as president, the next day, mining will restart as it used to be. That means the miners put their hope in that because they saw that the other guys lied.

Georgescu promised that the next day, after he was elected, mining would go on and restart as it was. So that was the reason why the miners turned to Georgescu and the souvereignists.

Georgescu is not the only politician coming out with pro-Trump messages on the green transition. Energy Minister Sebastian Burduja also suggested a redefinition of Romania’s green transition.

Burduja said that coal-fired power plants should be shut down three years later than the deadline agreed with the EC, and the mines that supply them with coal should perhaps continue. How is this line viewed?

I know for sure that it was Burduja together with the manager of our company, they went to Brussels and asked for a four-year extension to get three years.

And now we are working on the documentation, but unfortunately, we are waiting for a study from Transelectrica, for Transelectrica to say that we are still needed. They have to do a study, and in order to do that study they have to put it out to tender, to have a firm do that study, and they haven’t even gotten to that tender. So it’s possible it’s all just a story.

Okay, and what are Cartel Alfa’s positions or views on the different announcements and intentions coming from the Ministry of Energy?

Mr. Burduja said earlier that the Oltenia Electricity Combine has to be modernized in the sense that it can close some of the entities that are on coal, but open up on hydro, renewable energy, etc. And so, new jobs can be opened on gas.

He dreams of opening gas entities. They’re working on the India thermal plant, which they shut down on coal, and now I understand they’re working to convert it to gas.

They’ve already started to bring that in, but it’s not as safe and warm after the problems that they’re having. All the while Romanian politicians put the cart before the horse. They say that, indeed, this is what is written in the restructuring program, that we need to close some capacities which, from our point of view, will still be coal-fired, but this is what they were told in the restructuring plan, that they would close them.

They have not closed them because it has been cold in our country and when it is cold, there is a great need for energy and coal. We produced 1500 megawatts, now I can’t remember how much we produce. But we had no historical choice.

After this, on the one hand, we hope that the thermal power plants will extend their activity, except that I see that they have nowhere to get the coal. Burduja’s betting on gas, windmills, and so on. But they haven’t found anything as reliable as coal. It seems to me, although I know Mr. Burduja, that the man talks a lot.

Romanian politicians generally like to put the cart before the horse. In this case, there are many ambitions for these reforms and plans for transition, etc. But in fact, the horse exists and is not unfolded. And it is a reality, but other sufferings or plans are not realized yet. This is what we understand.

So, in fact, Cartel Alfa still starts from the horse, because it is what exists. I hope I have explained it correctly.

You can say that I was recently in the Bulgarian coal region of Stara Zagora and talked to the KNSB union in Bulgaria about this project of mapping the skills of good people in the mining and traditional energy sector. The mapping means a questionnaire and each worker is invited to fill in and complete the questionnaire. Does such a process take place or is such a process of mapping workers’ skills planned in Romania?

Not at the moment, no. Realize that if we go now with questionnaires who would want to work what, where they would want to go, it would be total madness. People are stressed anyway. If we also went with questions like “what do you want to retrain for”, “what to do”, it would stress them out even more. I don’t think that’s the necessary. So, you don’t do mapping in Romania, because if it comes up, people will be very stressed because they’re literally wondering what new thing you would want.

Okay. When we spoke last time, you and Mr. Gore Virțan said that it’s very difficult to get investment in coalfields, that even when there was a need for investment or there were proposals for investment, new jobs didn’t come or new investment didn’t come. Nothing has come in that direction?

Not many new jobs are opening up. Mines are closing but factories are not opening. Our county has benefited from the Just Transition Fund for as long as mining closes. Gave us a couple million euros. They went to some owners to build boarding houses, hotels, which doesn’t create very many jobs. The money from the Just Transition Fund has come for nothing, the miners haven’t benefited so far. All the hotel and hostel owners have benefited

I would understand it well that the money that was opened up to boost local things was given to people who have no relation to me?

I mean counties that had mining benefit from the money. The county of Gorj benefits the most money, because that’s where the biggest point of mining is. But it benefits some people who don’t create very many jobs.

There was a condition for when this money was given, that it could only be given to companies that were established before 2021. The miners who were working before 2021 didn’t have a company, so they were isolated by these foundations. And these foundations, again, were able to reach out to businessmen, who don’t open very many jobs. So they developed a business that doesn’t need a lot of people. This does not contribute to the situation.

Have there been other projects funded by the Just Transition Fund? For example, infrastructure projects or heating projects?

There are for example, heating projects for vulnerable family who can apply, if I understand correctly, for solar panels, but again, this doesn’t share many jobs

Is there a so-called early retirement or 5-year energy holiday in Romania – something that some trade unionists in Bulgaria seem to want to take over from Germany and Poland?

We negotiated it in the collective agreement, not on the transition fund. There are 24 average salaries, that is, miners are paid two years of supplementary income. There are still a few thousand who can’t profit from that.

This program exists in the collective agreement for miners. Not on the transition fund, but in the collective labor contract. But there are several thousand miners who don’t qualify for retirement. The idea is that you take the salaries for another two years and then you’re out of a job. But there are several thousand miners who can’t retire. Because even if they have this job, they can’t retire. So several thousand people are without this opportunity.

Their contracts keep getting extended for three months, for six months. Because we’ve got a pension. At one point, they let 52-year-olds retire. And then a lot of people retired and we were left somewhat exposed. And they hired people on fixed-term contracts. They’ve been extending them for three years. There are two thousand people working on fixed contracts. When the contract ends, they quit. But they quit for three or six months. The contract is waived, but they are vulnerable because the contract is for a fixed term.

Vladimir Mitev: I want to ask you more about the Jiu Valley, which is perhaps a little bit far from your interest?

No, because we are in the same federation and from the Jiu Valley and from here.

How would you describe the socio-economic situation in recent years in the Jiu Valley, when this just transition is already taking place? There are calls for applications, some money is distributed and how is the situation evolving?

The same as here.

Also on the just transition fund they get some of the funds. Not much has been done there either. I understand that alternatives have not been created there either. They have more compensation. If you kick them out, you give them less, you don’t give them salaries for 24 months. I don’t know exactly how many they have, but they have the longer period where they get their salary to stay home. We have 2 years, they have 4 years.

If they kick him out tomorrow, he’s got 10 years’ salary and he gets another 4 years’ salary to stay at home.

And the other question, the Bulgarian experience pushes me to ask you. In Bulgaria there are two trade unions, one is more anti-green transition. The other one, KNSB, in fact, sees some sense in the money coming from the green transition and even says it’s pro-green transition. Within it there’s still some resistance. But the labour union says – “This is money we can use to benefit our workers.” And there are two projects that this union is involved in and he’s managing this money. One is on mapping workers’ skills. The second one’s not very active yet. It’s still being negotiated, but it’s related to mine recultivation.

And I want to ask you why the Romanian trade unions, maybe Cartel Alfa, maybe the others, don’t recognize the economic interest in taking this money. Why do you think the perspective is different?

Now, you said that the union that agrees with the Greens is receiving money from their funds. What added value do they bring to the miners if they map, i.e. ask them to do a questionnaire? That union is clearly why they are holding your green teeth, because they are the beneficiary of the money that way. But they tell us that there is this opinion that someone wanted to take the money.

It’s pretty clear that you as a union if you get your hands on the money from the just transition fund, it’s pretty clear that you want the mines closed. We can never do that. We have a committee on the just transition fund within the Gorj County Council, which says that we are looking where to put the money. In that committee are us, me and Gore Virțan, from the unions. The rest are just NGOs, there’s nothing we can do because we have a vote. They put Greenpeace and Bankwatch – organizations that are supported from the outside to shut everything down – on that committee. They took any approach from us to open a working front. They challenge us. Clearly that union is yellow. If he’s benefiting from the money in the fund and says he’s willing to close people’s jobs, it’s to create other benefits, but he’s not going to create thousands of jobs.

And then let me ask you another political question. What happens if a sovereignist president wins the election in terms of our issue – just transition, mining and so on? What do you expect to happen if the sovereignist president?

I know exactly what happens in mining. Mining is going to close anyway, slowly, slowly. Nobody will reopen, nobody will do what the sovereignists say. Because it would take many billions to reopen that. And no, it’s impossible, although I wish it were. But it is impossible.

There is no reopening. We have to stand by Europe, not Russia. They’re pulling towards Russia. I don’t like Russia. Then what’s the solution? If it seems that Europe, so some people say, wants to close, for example Europe, not all of Europe wants to close. In our case, our MEPs went with this restructuring program and called for closure. That’s what I thought Europe wanted. But no, ours went, they said “let’s close in 2026”. Because other countries have a longer deadline, 2032-2040.

But if you, as a Romanian, as an MEP, as a parliamentarian, you go and say that I want to close, that I agree…

Now I understand that the European optics have changed a bit since Trump came out, but also since they gave up Russian gas. I mean no, ok, we all want a Europe, a green world, but we also have to live. I mean you can’t kill your industry altogether. Then we’ll probably operate for a few years as we are. We’re not going to reopen, but I don’t think it’s going to close completely. And there is understanding in certain parties or politicians in Romania. I’m not talking about sovereignists, I’m talking about the whole system.

Who recognizes the interests of mining or miners in Romania?

For example, these days, when everyone was in great need of us, they congratulated us to the max. They are beginning to recognize us. It was quite clear that they can’t do without us. What I want, as I‌ already said about Minister Burduja, is facts. Now we’re waiting for the Transelectrica study. We’re waiting for, I don’t know, another Transelectrica. I don’t have any faith whatsoever in people who call themselves sovereignists. It looks like a circus to me. They say nothing, like Georgescu. If they basically don’t ask him anything, he says nothing. He says exactly what the man wants to hear. If you go on GPT Chat you’ll find Georgescu’s answers.

Sovereignists are people who lie a lot. It’s not like they’re reopening mining. If you’re not from here and don’t know what’s going on, you believe him. That you know it takes many, many trillions of dollars to reopen. Our excavators are from the ’70s. Does anybody have money right now to buy new excavators? We have to make do with what we have and run with it. All parties see the importance of companies. Well, I think I do too.

I’m Bulgarian, and Malgorzata is a Pole. How much does your union exchange experience in the region? How well does it know the situation of just transition in our region?

I’ve had discussions with Bulgarian leaders. Unfortunately I have never met colleagues from Poland. But I have met Bulgarian leaders quite often. Because it’s a Europe-wide organization, which has 80 organizations in it – trade unions, NGOs. And our confederation, Cartel Alfa, is affiliated to that. And they call us.

I was in Germany last week. But I was on other programs. And I think somewhere on March 20, from what I remember I will have to come to Bulgaria to meet with your leaders. I know at one point in the evening they did some protests in which the energy minister accused them of terrorism. They blocked a highway in the evening or I don’t know what they did in the evening.

This was in 2023…

…I think so, we met in France and we told the general secretary of the Podkrepa confederation.

How useful is this exchange of experience?

Well, we see what they have found, what we have found. And we try to learn from each other. Before, maybe 10-12 years ago, our trade unions had very good cooperation with Polish trade unions. At least once a year they went to Poland and the Poles came to us. Probably that’s where they took our idea for the compensatory programs, that I understand they are in Poland. I mean, yeah, we try to take the best from each other.

Photo: Alin Munteanu (source: Facebook)

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